Shooting in Denver

[Am__I]

Was totally being sarcastic about the Roman thing, ya dolt. Regardless, that provision is relevant to the 2nd Amendment which nobody has been able to muster sufficient support to repeal.

And that culture will not and can not change by government fiat.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...6d37c30b6f1709

Amusing, relevant article. Read it all (only short), but this is the conclusion:

In this sense, gun control is on a long list of things that could have saved many people's lives and made the world a better place, but for which it is now probably too late: a two-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, EU action to avert economic catastrophe, stopping global warming. So this is just what one of America's many faces is going to be: a bitterly divided, hatefully cynical country where insane people have easy access to semi-automatic weapons, and occasionally use them to commit senseless atrocities. We will continue to see more and more of this sort of thing, and there's nothing we can realistically do about it.

Sums up my position. Support gun control in the UK where it can be effective; have no strong opinion in the US because the horse has already bolted.

Never suggested it could be changed by government. I merely suggested this part of your culture is backwards and stupid.

[mmmpizza]

Holmes was charged today with 24 counts of murder and 116 counts of attempted murder. Now, I'm curious as to something and I come to you smart people to maybe answer my question...

How is it he is charged with 24 counts of murder when he only killed 12?

[mesmalhuers]

They're charging him two counts for each person he killed.

[mmmpizza]

Isn't that like double jeopardy though?

[screammagerr]

Nah because double jeopardy would be if he was originally acquitted, convicted (prior) or if there was a mistrial.

[mesmalhuers]

My boyfriend sent me this from NBC news:

Here's from NBC News
The murder charges included one count of 1st degree "murder with deliberation" and another count of 1st degree murder of "extreme indifference to the value of human life" for each victim.

[JohnDoe429]

Seems like they are going at him hard. I wish pubic stoning was still a punishment. That is what he deserves.

[Evlmstr]

Daily tip: buy Sturm & Ruger stock. Bad to think of this tragedy in terms of exploitation, I know, but I am up over 8% in a week. Could rise significantly higher if they blow through earnings as Smith and Wesson did.

[Mr_Quick]

Holmes was charged today with 24 counts of murder and 116 counts of attempted murder. Now, I'm curious as to something and I come to you smart people to maybe answer my question...

How is it he is charged with 24 counts of murder when he only killed 12?

That was confusing for me too. As far as I can tell the prosecution is basically throwing everything they have against the wall to see what sticks. To be convicted of murder, a person has to act either with premeditation (i.e. tracking down your wife's new boyfriend and intentionally killing him) or with reckless disregard for human life (i.e. driving down the street throwing hand grenades out your car window for lulz, killing a bystander in the process). In this case, the prosecution has charged him with both for each victim rather than choosing one option and sticking with it, presumably to maximize their odds of getting a conviction regardless of what the trial turns up as far as Holmes' motive and mental state. Unless I'm quite mistaken they can't convict him for both at the same time (how do you unintentionally kill someone intentionally?), but throwing both charges in there gives the prosecution more flexibility to pursue one avenue or the other as the trial progresses.

[Epiphany-]

Quick, you're not mistaken. They can't convict him of both. The ordeal was obviously premeditated, so if he doesn't get convicted for all counts of murder 1, then I will be absolutely shocked.

Nah because double jeopardy would be if he was originally acquitted, convicted (prior) or if there was a mistrial.

Double Jeopardy does not apply to mistrials. If a mistrial is declared, then the defendant can be tried again if and when new evidence is brought forward.

[mmmpizza]

Okay, other question. Since I'm far to lazy to google and I know Epip went to school for criminal justice or whatevez. If he is determined to be 'insane' can he be given the death penalty?

Ya'll know I need to know these things before I go writing my love letters.

[andysexypants]

he'll be gone forever... i dont think it matters right now what happens to him.

[Epiphany-]

I don't know what Colorado's take is on Capital Punishment. If he's deemed mentally insane, he'll go to a psychiatric facility. With this event, I don't believe, by any stretch of the imagination, they'll bargain with him on it. If anyone deems him insane, then they've got issues as well.

Even so, if they go that route, no, he can't be given the death penalty, iirc.

[mmmpizza]

I believe he is mentally insane.

[Epiphany-]

That means absolutely nothing though. I mean, even the jury can believe he is mentally insane, but that doesn't mean they'll convict him for anything less than all counts of murder 1. I am thinking that because of how he planned everything out and how many people were shot and/or killed, he'll easily get the death penalty, if it's on the table. If Colorado has lethal injection, and they don't put it on the table due to bargaining or whatever, then I think the prosecution has a problem.

Death penalty or bust, imo.

[Mr_Quick]

I believe he is mentally insane.

I believe he's probably mentally ill. That said, there's a huge difference between having a mental illness and meeting the legal standard for "insanity", since most of the psychological ideas underlying the legal system's treatment of the insanity defense are from the 1800s or earlier, while the study of moral psychology didn't uncover the major flaws in these ideas until the 1980s and 1990s.

[mmmpizza]

But even if he gets the death penalty I see him dying on death row waiting.

[Epiphany-]

I could see this case being expedited, since it is so high-profile.

[TexasCOUNTRYrc13]

This guy's case is one big put on. But the biggest problem is that he's not good at it. He's so full of shit that it's obvious he's full of shit. The dude knows what he did. He may be a med student, but when it comes to mental capacity he's no Charles Manson.

[mmmpizza]

Eh. I'd seen he won't even go to court till Nov 12. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Fingers crossed he responds to my letters.