And.. that's religion.

[ktdiep]

Found this picture on Tumblr, thought'd I share. c:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ba91r8008l.jpg

[hovla]

and ... that's bullshit.

[XmurderXchaosX]

I can barely see it.

[I_Am_Once_Was]

I don't think that's religion. It's just a huge part of religion.

[AnHonestGuy]

How does this shit stay here for so long? Seriously, are the mods that retarded?

[busylife16]

This is all stupid! I came here thinking there was actual worth of a conversation! Stop wasting ppls time!

[ktdiep]

Your time is already being wasted by being on this site alone.
Lol, calm your tits. Seriously, it's just an analogy.

[Mr_Quick]

It's a fair analogy for the mythological aspect of religion, not so much for religion as a whole. For instance, many people already believe similar urban legends (crocodiles being found in city sewers, George Washington chopping down the cherry tree, etc.), yet those long-held but wrongheaded beliefs are called myths, not religions. The difference is, religions use mythology to teach a system of commonly-applicable moral lessons. In essence, religion gave humans a solid justification for behaving morally besides "I feel like it", which is especially helpful when the demonstrable, scientific reasons for preferring moral behavior are not known (as they weren't by most people throughout history).

[MyNameIsNotBrad]

It's a fair analogy for the mythological aspect of religion, not so much for religion as a whole. For instance, many people already believe similar urban legends (crocodiles being found in city sewers, George Washington chopping down the cherry tree, etc.), yet those long-held but wrongheaded beliefs are called myths, not religions. The difference is, religions use mythology to teach a system of commonly-applicable moral lessons. In essence, religion gave humans a solid justification for behaving morally besides "I feel like it", which is especially helpful when the demonstrable, scientific reasons for preferring moral behavior are not known (as they weren't by most people throughout history).

[David]

It's a fair analogy for the mythological aspect of religion, not so much for religion as a whole. For instance, many people already believe similar urban legends (crocodiles being found in city sewers, George Washington chopping down the cherry tree, etc.), yet those long-held but wrongheaded beliefs are called myths, not religions. The difference is, religions use mythology to teach a system of commonly-applicable moral lessons. In essence, religion gave humans a solid justification for behaving morally besides "I feel like it", which is especially helpful when the demonstrable, scientific reasons for preferring moral behavior are not known (as they weren't by most people throughout history).

that's religion.

[The_Mothman]

I don't think that's religion. It's just a huge part of religion.

[MoralAtheist]

religion gave humans a solid justification for behaving morally besides "I feel like it",

How about, "behaving in a way in which everyone is treated fairly is beneficial to society"?

which is especially helpful when the demonstrable, scientific reasons for preferring moral behavior are not known (as they weren't by most people throughout history).

It's common knowledge that behaving in a way that maximizes the safety and wellness of a society is beneficial to everyone. Does this have to be demonstrated? In an epidemiological study?

[Mr_Quick]

How about, "behaving in a way in which everyone is treated fairly is beneficial to society"?

Give me an objective reason why I or anyone else should care about society's benefit over my own that doesn't reference science, philosophy, or religion, if you wouldn't mind.

[MoralAtheist]

Give me an objective reason why I or anyone else should care about society's benefit over my own that doesn't reference science, philosophy, or religion, if you wouldn't mind.

Really? Benefiting society IS self-beneficial when one is part of said society. A room full of people agreeing to not mug each other, for instance. Although you can't go around robbing others, it ensures that others can't rob you.

[Mr_Quick]

Really? Benefiting society IS self-beneficial when one is part of said society. A room full of people agreeing to not mug each other, for instance. Although you can't go around robbing others, it ensures that others can't rob you.

You really think it's that simple, do you?

Learn psychology, game theory, and economics among a few other things, then come back and we can have a productive discussion about this.

[MoralAtheist]

You really think it's that simple, do you?

Learn psychology, game theory, and economics among a few other things, then come back and we can have a productive discussion about this.

I am educated in those subjects. That was not only rude, but contributed nothing to the actual conversation. Your post provided 0 evidence that I was incorrect. Anyway, I originally replied to this.

religion gave humans a solid justification for behaving morally besides "I feel like it"

Really? Old beliefs about powerful beings punishing evil-doers (generalizing) is solid justification for being moral, yet the idea that of behaving morally for the sake of society AND oneself (since one is part of society) is too simplistic? Explain.

[Mr_Quick]

I am educated in those subjects. That was not only rude, but contributed nothing to the actual conversation. Your post provided 0 evidence that I was incorrect.

Out of curiosity, how would you react to a diehard theist who claimed to be educated on the subject of evolution, then proceeded to make arguments that demonstrated the opposite, like "well if evolution is true then why has my dog never given birth to a fish"? Would you sit there and patiently teach them evolutionary biology from the bottom up so they can understand your counterarguments, or conclude that your time was probably better spent elsewhere?

Anyway, I originally replied to this.

Really? Old beliefs about powerful beings punishing evil-doers (generalizing) is solid justification for being moral, yet the idea that of behaving morally for the sake of society AND oneself (since one is part of society) is too simplistic? Explain.

The implication that "everyone agree not to rob each other okay" is a useful or sufficient moral system was the part that indicated that you're out of your depth here. Agreements and promises have no value in the absence of some type of enforcement mechanism, hence why I asked you to provide one not based on faith ("God will be angry if I do this") or acquired knowledge ("the law says I'll be punished if I do this", or "my knowledge of human behavior indicates this approach will hurt me in the long run"). That you're apparently unaware of even this basic issue does not inspire confidence.

[hovla]

You really think it's that simple, do you?

Learn psychology, game theory, and economics among a few other things, then come back and we can have a productive discussion about this.

game theory?

[MoralAtheist]

Out of curiosity, how would you react to a diehard theist who claimed to be educated on the subject of evolution, then proceeded to make arguments that demonstrated the opposite, like "well if evolution is true then why has my dog never given birth to a fish"?

I would never make a claim, and then take the position "go learn yourself if you disagree". I hear that exact argument all the time, and a few sentence usually suffice.

The implication that "everyone agree not to rob each other okay" is a useful or sufficient moral system was the part that indicated that you're out of your depth here.

This is where the problem in your argument lies. You said:

religion gave humans a solid justification for behaving morally besides "I feel like it",

You made this claim before I stated anything. This is the problem I (and possibly others on this board) have with your argument. You're an intelligent person, and (correct me if I'm wrong) you made the claim that the idea of behaving morally because "I feel like it" (which is why a lot of us do behave morally, science aside) is LESS justified than fearing punishment (or whatever religion had to do with it). "Feeling" like it is SO broad. When it comes down to it, practically any decision you make is because you "feel" like it. If you act good because of a religion, you're still acting 'good' because you "feel" like it. For example, I might "feel" like not screwing someone over because I believe I was raised better, or because I wouldn't want that to happen to me.

If you're going to claim that the incredibly broad term "feeling" like behaving morally is less justified than behaving morally due to religious beliefs (which arguably could be due to "feeling" like it anyway), you have to back it up. Saying "people behave bad too" doesn't cover it, because religions disagree on morals all the time. (Terrorist attacks to get into heaven for virgins, etc. Lol)

[I_Am_Once_Was]

Give me an objective reason why I or anyone else should care about society's benefit over my own that doesn't reference science, philosophy, or religion, if you wouldn't mind.

Because society is the only thing protecting you from starvation, natural disasters, exposure, wild animals, and itself. If society breaks down, anything goes, and I doubt you want to take your chances. As I say it dates much farther back than tribalism and it's ingrained in our nature. There's no better reason than "I feel like it."