Which WW2 battle was more instrumental in defeating Germany?

[LagunaOfGalbadia]

Which battle during World War II do you believe was more instrumental in defeating Nazi Germany, D-Day or Operation Barbarossa? I'm an American and I'm hesitant to say that either side was more instrumental. On one side the Americans liberated France and on the other side the Soviets pushed back the Germans. Arguably, the Soviets reached Berlin first, but if it wasn't for the American-led invasion in Western Europe, the Germans could have focused all of their attention on the Soviet Union and possibly launched a successful counter-offensive. But without Operation Barbarossa, the Soviet Union would have been severely weakened, and possibly even defeated. Which battle do you think was more instrumental in defeating Nazi Germany?

[TheDisintegrators]

The Russians didn't really push back. They literally picked up towns and moved them over a mountain range making the Germans advance to fight take longer and get the Germans into the Russian winters. The war still raged on for 3 more years. So Operation Barbarossa (the invasion of Russia) is arguably less significant as it only technically lead to a halt in an advance that the Russians let the Germans advance on.

[Delan_]

D-Day, it led to france being liberated and then the inevitable push into germany and whatnot

[fball51]

Barbarossa unquestionably. The Eastern Front is where the war was, thankfully, won. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know the history.

[Just_Scott]

Actually, you could argue that Germany was most instrumental in beating itself by invading Russia before finishing off Britain. If they had attacked GB first, then the allies would have had a much harder time in launching a "D Day." A 2 front war did them in.

[hovla]

it was more like 3 fronts since Italians were more or less useless in south.

There is speculation that uprisings in balkans and greece caused operation Barbarosa to fail since Germany had to deal with that threat and started Operation Barbarosa too late to capture good footholds before winter came in.

[fball51]

Actually, you could argue that Germany was most instrumental in beating itself by invading Russia before finishing off Britain. If they had attacked GB first, then the allies would have had a much harder time in launching a "D Day." A 2 front war did them in.

Even at their peak, Germany only had about 40 divisions in the West because of GB. That number was, IIRC, about 15-20 when they launched Barbarossa. Which would have made, ultimately, little difference on the Eastern Front. The Germans had plenty of numbers in Barbarossa, and in most cases had local numerical superiority, so those extra divisions would have mattered, ultimately, very little. Especially when you further add that said divisions when they launched Barbarossa were mostly the dregs of the Wehrmacht, or those units that needed rest and refit.

[blazinex]

Barbarossa unquestionably. The Eastern Front is where the war was, thankfully, won. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know the history.

[Sarahashleyxo]

Germany went down hill when their Fuhrer starting popping methamphetamine every day. There were several occasions where Hitler screwed up and made his army more vulnerable or weaker. Don't get me wrong, we would of won inevitably, but Hitler definitely made some horrible choices.

[purp916]

Germany went down hill when their Fuhrer starting popping methamphetamine every day. There were several occasions where Hitler screwed up and made his army more vulnerable or weaker. Don't get me wrong, we would of won inevitably, but Hitler definitely made some horrible choices.

he played his cards in a solid manner. but that russian winter came along which enabled the russians to drive hitler's army back, as well as freeze the fuck out of a good portion of his force.

and meth wasn't even a significant component of his downfall. he just opened too many fronts.

[Sarahashleyxo]

I've taken two classes on WW2, both of my professers, as well as books believe that was a major fall. He hardly slept, he would sit in his bunker and stare at his portrait of Fredrick the Great for hours. The man wasn't right. He certainly couldn't think sufficient battle strategies.:/ He left the fronts open because was insane from the drug abuse.

[purp916]

I've taken two classes on WW2, both of my professers, as well as books believe that was a major fall. He hardly slept, he would sit in his bunker and stare at his portrait of Fredrick the Great for hours. The man wasn't right. He certainly couldn't think sufficient battle strategies.:/ He left the fronts open because was insane from the drug abuse.

he actually pondered for months before unleashing a force. his strategies were effective. he out planned, out maneuvered, and out competed every opponent. the only think that fucked with his plans was the russian snow. meth played an infinitely small role in his demise.

[Sarahashleyxo]

In the beginning he was brillant, but he began to get his daily shot of meth in 1942, when he did make the mistake of the Russian winter, after that, it all went down hill. So, yes, I guess it wasa major event the downfall, but I'm pretty sure without the drugs after that, it might of gone a little better for the nazis.

[fball51]

he played his cards in a solid manner. but that russian winter came along which enabled the russians to drive hitler's army back, as well as freeze the fuck out of a good portion of his force.

And what the Russians were fighting in tropical conditions? I love how German apologists like to point out the Russian Winter, as if they were somehow surprised that it was going to come along.

he actually pondered for months before unleashing a force. his strategies were effective. he out planned, out maneuvered, and out competed every opponent. the only think that fucked with his plans was the russian snow. meth played an infinitely small role in his demise.

Poland was won because the Poles were a shitty adversary. France was won because of the incompetence of the French high command, and the planning of Von Manstein (a brilliant commander he later fired).

As for planning, where do you put the part of not supplying winter clothing to the Wehrmacht during Barborassa, of completely fucking up Operation Bleu and the subsequent Stalingrad campaign, of continually postponing the Kursk offensive with devastating results, of insisting on the use of the laughably useless Ferdinand tank destroyers, of not insisting that the first operational jet plane be a bomber, instead of a fighter when the Allies were bombing Germany to shit, and on and on and on.

Also, again, was he supposed to be surprised that snowed in Russia in the winter?

[purp916]

actually what happened was the winter and snow came slightly earlier than was expected by hitler and his camp. they had plans to render russia ineffective within something like a little over a month and be completely done with the operation prior to the arrival of the unbearable conditions. nature took a shit on his army and it had nothing to do with the superiority of russia.

read the THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH A History of Nazi Germany by william shirer.

that's the most concise and in-depth account of what happened. it'll eclipse all the shit you learn in your classes from those two-bit professors.

[Sarahashleyxo]

I'm pretty sure they've read that book and hundreds of others.:/ Both their rooms are surrounded by book cases stacked with books, and not to mention their homes. Those men are brilliant and actually help the WW2 vets, speak to them, and do a lot more than you could ever imagine doing for them. Don't disrespect them or their knowledge. They probably know a lot more than that book.

[purp916]

And what the Russians were fighting in tropical conditions? I love how German apologists like to point out the Russian Winter, as if they were somehow surprised that it was going to come along.

like i said above, the nazis had no intentions of fighting during the winter. their tanks and half tracks were not equipped for a battle in the snow because the goal was to graze russia to shits before the winter even arrived. little did hitler know that that particular winter was going to arrive slightly earlier than the previous 13 winters.

[purp916]

I'm pretty sure they've read that book and hundreds of others.:/ Both their rooms are surrounded by book cases stacked with books, and not to mention their homes. Those men are brilliant and actually help the WW2 vets, speak to them, and do a lot more than you could ever imagine doing for them. Don't disrespect them or their knowledge. They probably know a lot more than that book.

there isn't anything out there that is more informative on the subject than the book i posted. it's a day to day account of what transpired, which derives its information from the documents found in hitler's headquarters.

read it, it would eliminate the misconception that meth played a direct role in hitlers downfall lmao. it might even enable you to educate your misinformed professors.


http://www.gooshbe.de/upload/files/B..._Germany_-.pdf

can be found there.

[Sarahashleyxo]

Have you ever met anyone on meth? You're insane if you don't believe that misguided him, dear. There's a reason they us to say no to drugs. It gives you bad judgement. That's a fact. Misinformed my ass. There are several books ON Hitlers drug useage. Books say a lot of different things. A lot of different accounts by Authurs. Me? I'm going to believe the men who have studied it their whole, as well as talked to men who were there. Not an 20 year old guy who read one book.

[Mr_Quick]

The Russian winter came on in late November, and especially into December. This is fairly normal across the Northern Hemisphere, Russia included. Further, yes, Hitler expected to be done with Russia by then. This was an utter failure on his part; he badly underestimated the Russians and overestimated his own power and that of his forces. Thinking that you're invincible and unstoppable, which is pretty much what Hitler thought of himself and his forces at this point, is commonly referred to as megalomania, which can be brought on or exacerbated by, among other things, abuse of stimulant drugs like methamphetamine.